A word of caution for female tourists visiting Egypt: be careful of the many of the men working in tourist areas in Egypt.
Although the vast majority of Egyptians have a high sense of honor and good conduct, it seems that tourist areas seem to attract a relatively high concentration of people with lax morals, who would exploit tourists in many ways. It can manifest itself as persistent aggressive begging, peddling cheap goods, charging 10X the normal prices for services and goods, and what this article focuses on: exploiting female tourists.
Looking at the bulk of the comments on my notes on compulsory army service in egypt they are mostly from non-Egyptian women who married (or intend to marry) an Egyptian man, and army service has become an obstacle.
So, once you here the word "habibti" (meaning "my love" in Arabic), and before you call him "Habibi", let alone go down the marriage route, read on below for more information.
The exploitation happens in many forms, but is normally centered around one of the following:
Easy and Free Sex
Many tourists come from countries where sex is more freely practiced outside of marriage. Youn g Egyptian men working in tourist areas who
are not married see this as an opportunity, and are met with acceptance from the female tourists.
A source for Money
Many Egyptian men who practice this scam view the "wealthy" tourist as a source of income. They keep asking their "girl friend", "fiance" or "wife" for money for various excuses, just like a professional scammer would play a confidence game on a victim.
An Opporunity for Immigration
Some of those men want to get out of Egypt, and see their marriage as a way to gain residence and citizenship in a Western country. The economy in Egypt has been stagnant for decades, and poverty, lack of opportunity and the high cost of marriage lures some youth to trying these tricks.
Why it works?
There are several factors that work in favor of the Egyptian scammers here.
One factor that helps is that most Egyptian men look desirable to Western women, being of darker complexion than their compatriots. The fact that the foreigners are white blonds work in making the women attractive and desirable for Egyptian men.
Another factor is that the woman is coming to the tourist place to have a good time. It may be a break from stressful work or study, or perhaps a past relationship. This helps blind her to what is happening.
Yet another factor is the cultural differences which also create temporary blindness.
Moreover, those workers being away from their village or city of origin, where they would be observed by their extended family and friends tend to make it easier for them to engage in sexual relationships and scams without being scrutinized by acquaintenaces, and no stigma is attached to these behaviors.
Finally, the scammers have perfected their techniques over the years, and are very skillful at what they do.
Blacklists
Blacklists have emerged on the internet, to warn potential female tourists from known exploiters. These have all the faults of user contributed content on the internet in that they can be innacurate, biased, or even rigged by rivals or pranksters. However, in the absence of any other information, they can be useful, provided they are taken with a good deal of skepticism and research and common sense applied.
- An overview article on what a "black list" is, at Arabia.pl.
- Dezy House: Blacklist for Hurghada, in English.
- Dezy House: Blacklist for Sharm El Sheikh, in English.
- Wanted List of Egypt.
- Egyptian Blacklist on Topix.
- KunstKamera blacklist.
Happens everywhere, not only Egypt
Before someone gets the impression that Egypt is a cesspool, and Egyptians are crooks, let me say it is neither.
The problem above is not limited to Egypt by any means. Any country where tourists come in to spend money has its share of exploiters. The above black lists have a Turkish one, and a Tunisian one, and there are lots of stories about French, Italian and Spanish men exploiting women tourists as well.
Of course, there is also the Russian bride fraud targeting well to do men in the West.
So, the problem is universal, although this article focuses on female tourists to Egypt.
Final Thoughts
There are many non-Egyptian women married to Egyptian men happily, so over-generalizing from the cases mentioned, or from workers at tourist resort is wrong. Chances are you will be happy with an Egyptian as a husband if you met him in a more natural settings, e.g. while studying or working, and getting to meet his family as well.
The "artificial" environment in resorts, being on holiday, and surrounded by some scammers lend itself to the disasters described.
So, beware ...
Further Reading
- Marwa Rakha: Relationship Warning: Do not get involved with Egyptian Men (also here).
- Global Voices: "Beware of Egyptian Men" says Canadian Embassy, also by Marwa Rakha.
- Trailing Grouse: Egyptian men marrying women for money.
- Yahoo Answers: Egyptian Men marrying foreign women to get out from Egypt.
- Sex, Sun, Stupidity and Gigolos.
- Amy Robson: n English girl who keeps falling in false love with Egyptian men (she finally returned to Britain).
- Someone searching on KunstKamera: for Honest Egyptian Boys?
- List if sites on Romance Fraud in German, and other languages.
- A movie documentary in the making on holiday romance, specially Hurghada.
- Female Sex Tourism on Wikipedia, has lots of links to extensive articles. While Turkey is listed as a major destination, Egypt, Tunisia, and Morocco are listed as "minor destinations".
- An article from a Canadian perspective: Sex tourism in full boom. Jamaica, Barbados, Dominican Republic and the Caribbean are the major destination for Canadian women.
Comments
Anonymous (not verified)
Its you not us
Sat, 2010/09/04 - 08:50---This statement is made in ignorance of western culture and only what you have perceived from western TV and movies on cable which you watch because you obviously enjoy them. You would be qualified to comment on western culture when you have actually spent time in the west and not been brain washed by fictional and at times, sensational media.---
It’s you westerns who had been brain washed by your fictional and sensational media, you never seen Egyptian family before, though you judge it and imply it all a whole 80 million from a few men who went against our traditions.
It makes me sick that you speak that way, I had seen many of you who came here (Egypt) in a vacation for 3-4 weeks , at the first week they were so bored and cant stand Egypt and at the end of their vacation they wished they could stay permanently in Egypt or at least have our family warmness and bonds in their great western lives.
Khalid
Partial picture from both sides ...
Sat, 2010/09/04 - 12:42The picture of the other side is always skewed, no matter which side you are on. The issue is lack of communication and getting the true picture out.
For Arabs/Muslims, the imagery of the Arabian Nights and Hollywood movies building on these stereotypes. Add to that the new terrorism link and you have the skewed picture. For example, see Reel Bad Arabs. On the other hand there is the allure of the Orient, with Sultans having harems full of women, and Western women on vacation in tourist places are preyed upon by con-men working in these areas.
On the other hand, movies and TV shows of the West give the impression that all the people in the West are dissolute with loose morals and easy sex. Again, Hollywood is mainly to blame.
These are fictional pictures and do not represent reality ...
So, this notion of "You are bad! No it is you!" does not help in furthering the discussion in any way.
Hollywood does not represent the entire "West". Western women on vacation do not represent all women in the West. Egyptian men working in tourist areas do not represent the Egyptian men.
We have already discussed this to death in this thread. So there is no need to start it again every few months.
Isis (not verified)
Re "It's You not Us"
Mon, 2010/09/06 - 00:15As Khalid has said this topic has been done to death. But I must conclude with a note to Mr Anonymous that I, as a western woman do know Egytian culture and Egytpian men as I am married to an Egyptian man and have been for a number of years. Before we married I took the time to get to know the Egyptian family, the culture and traditions as my husband took the time to understand mine. My husband does not directly blame anyone for the seedy side of Egytpian tourism but cannot understand why many men in tourism abandon the values that they were taught when young to scam women tourists. Simple as that!
Hannah (not verified)
Too right Khalid, my husband
Sat, 2010/09/04 - 18:24Too right Khalid, my husband comes from a large family, I am including his cousins etc. They are all hard working good people, and most now are married, providing well for their wives, three of the wives have degrees, one a doctor so they also work, but not because they have to, but because they want to, same as myself. The biggest problem is lack of understanding by tourists of the culture in Egypt, when we travel we should learn about the country first, jumping into bed with an Egyptian man is a no no, if they really want marriage they should go down the right path, same as any Egyptian girl, and learn to respect themselves first, then they will gain respect. From Hannan UK.
Anonymous (not verified)
Questions on Egyptian Culture
Sat, 2010/09/04 - 18:54I have read this blog with interest and tried to get a sense of what the "balanced view" may be. I am sure that the bas stories will always outweigh the good - whoever talks about being happy?? :)
A lot of the warnings appear common sense - if there is a large age gap between you, you probably have grounds to be suspicious. If you are asked for money in any format, then you have grounds to be suspicious.
Those i did feel more sympathy for, were those whose stories were a little more ambiguous - i did leave a few of the stories thinking "how can you actually tell", and is it as wrong to discourage the pursuit of a relationship that may work, based on generalisations; similarly encouraging them to walk into the lions den, may also be not ideal.
I therefore wanted to ask a few clarifying questions that i hope someone with genuine perspective will respond to. I am not egyptian but come from a similar enough background that i do appreciate the power of religion, matriarchs and the appetite to marry virgins - and also how vastly our society has changed since my parent's generation.
My questions:
1) one of the salient messages appears to be: stay away from all men in tourist destinations. It is however likely that most women who meet egyptians will meet them in this context. In our culture there are often some jobs in tourism that are considered quite prestigious - one has to be able to conduct oneself with tourists - be clean, polite, educated and multilingual. Is your comment that "all men in tourism" are not good, fair? Can you qualify this statement.
2) Regarding sexual conduct - what you have said about modesty appears true but i sometimes wonder whether this is more of a veneer than a reality in younger generations. Is the attitude to sex before marriage quite as rigid as it was? (i am asking this as a 20something from a god fearing culture that is not always as well behaved as a whole as it likes to appear). All my mothers' generation would certainly have married as virgins. Few of our generation would say the same, although none would be described as promiscuous. Who does this translate to today's egypt
3) is there any practical advice you can give on how these women can "tell" if prospective husbands are married etc? In our culture the women tend to "give it away" - meeting mums, aunts and sisters in the family home is a good sign - is it the same? What other clues can suggest that all is not as it seems in this respect?
4) is there anything that women can do from a legal perspective to protect themselves? I am thinking of pre-nups or similar than can be drafted in dual languages to at least mitigate some of the risk
I would be interested in your thoughts.
Thanks
Isis (not verified)
Answers
Mon, 2010/09/06 - 00:331) To clarify - stay away from hospitality staff in hotels and restaurants, cruise ship staff, dive instructors and others in lowly paid jobs. These men see women tourists as a way to easy money and a better life. Many men in tourism are multi lingual and they will certainly be clean and polite but educated - highly unlikely.
2) The attitude regarding sex before marriage in Egypt is still rigid. Why do you think that the comments from Egyptians on this site blame foreign women for bringing the sex industry to the tourism areas?
3) Re married Egyptian men - if the man is 27 or older he will be married and possibly have children. If he tells you he is not married that will be the first lie. If you meet the man's family they possibly would have sent the Egyptian wife away for the day or she will pretend that she is his sister and the children are his nieces and nephews. The family will play the game as instructed by their son. Also, you will find that their English will not be proficient so the chance of having an in depth conversation with them will be out of the question.
4) If you need to consider having a pre-nup or legal document to protect your assets then then there is doubt about the honesty of the man concerned. So why would you go there?
Hannah (not verified)
Everything you say Isis is
Mon, 2010/09/06 - 09:29Everything you say Isis is correct, lets hope many women read this and take note.
Anonymous (not verified)
Generalisation of Men in Tourism
Tue, 2010/09/07 - 12:05I have been to Egypt over the last few years always staying in the same resort.
On my first visit I became romantically involved with an Egyptian guy. He worked in tourism selling various excursions. He was 28 and I was 32.
This man was married (not Orfi) to another lady from the UK prior to me meeting him and he has never kept this information a secret. I have also had contact with this lady who has clarified that he is a good man and never took advantage of her. She still has great respect for him, his family and country.
I would also like to mention that he was always very open about his cultural ways and what he expected. Everything he has told me has always turned out to be true.
Our relationship did not develop after my return to the UK due mainly to the distance and me not being strong enough to leave behind my family and friends. However we have remained friends and keep in contact by email or phone generally on a weekly basis ever since.
He also has not kept our friendship a secret from his family or friends. I have even spoken to some of them on the phone.
Every year or time I go back we always meet and spend time together. This is also sometimes with my friends and my fiance. He always contributes towards the bill and has never assumed that we would pay for him.
I know there are alot of bad people in tourism as I have also come across these even on my last visit a few months ago.
However I feel we should not generalise that just because of a certain job that someone is not true or to be trusted. If this was the case we could say that every man who works in a factory cannot be trusted whereas a person in a professional job i.e doctor,lawyer are all good in the UK. (which if you watch the news or read the papers we know is not the case).
Isis (not verified)
Generalisation
Tue, 2010/09/07 - 21:55The comments on this forum relate to women that have been in disasterous romantic relationships with Egyptian men in tourism or could be embarking on a relationship with an Egyptian man they have met through tourism. It appears that you are not romantically involved with your Egyptian friend but you have still discussed him him with his former wife. Was there an underlying reason for this possibly involving trust and honesty issues?
There are good men in Egypt and I too, have many friends in tourism who are indeed very honourable and one in particular has been treated very badly by an English woman who is denying him access to his much loved son. This illustrates that the emotional and financial damage can be on both sides of the coin.
I am married to an Egyptian man and have been for a number of years and after a few years of getting to know each other's cultures and religions we have developed into a harmonious couple and our relationship is a very happy one. We are returning to Egypt in a few days for a few months to catch up with family and friends and to persue business interests.
You also appear to have been to Egypt more than once and therefore have an understanding of the culture, the religion and the customs. First time female tourists to Egypt generally do not have this knowledge and they are vulnerable to sweet talk and the money scams as a result of the attention the often handsome men are perceived to give them. The women that ask questions on this forum regarding a possible romance with an Egyptian man they have met on holiday need to be made aware of the possible pitfalls and there are many.
Have you ever been to Sharm or Hurghada and had the time to sit in a cafe in the evenings and looked at what goes on around you? It makes for interesting observation - young Egyptian men (waiters, dive instructors, tour guides etc.) everywhere chatting up vulnerable foreign women tourists, both young and more mature. Judging by the reactions of the women to the charms of the men, they are completely oblivious to the possibility of becoming the next scam victim. Do you think that it is fair that these women will possibly walk away from a one sided relationship, emotionally wounded and financialy ruined? It happens every day in the tourist areas and this is also not taking into consideration the resultant children of these brief unions that utlimately become the sole responsibility of the woman.
Of course there are exceptions to every rule but I personally believe that the "generalisation" of Egyptian men in tourism is an accurate call.
Anonymous (not verified)
Thanks for your reply
Wed, 2010/09/08 - 06:20Thanks for your reply Isis.
You are correct I am not romantically involved with an Egyptian but I was and this is the man I was talking about and am still friendly with and trust.
I have to admit, yes I have had contact with his ex wife but this has only been since my return from vacation this year, not when I was involved with him.
As I mentioned in my previous posting there are bad men. All I was trying to say is that you cannot judge everyone the same.
I too have observed the actions of the Egptian men and women you mentioned and do not like the way they are scammed or hurt.
I just want these women to make the correct choice and not just give up on a relationship because of the job they are in i.e tourism.
I would suggest however that they do not rush into anything and take their time. This will allow them to get a better understanding of the culture etc. which means they will be able to judge the mans actions more clearly to see if he is to be trusted or not.
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