A word of caution for female tourists visiting Egypt: be careful of the many of the men working in tourist areas in Egypt.
Although the vast majority of Egyptians have a high sense of honor and good conduct, it seems that tourist areas seem to attract a relatively high concentration of people with lax morals, who would exploit tourists in many ways. It can manifest itself as persistent aggressive begging, peddling cheap goods, charging 10X the normal prices for services and goods, and what this article focuses on: exploiting female tourists.
Looking at the bulk of the comments on my notes on compulsory army service in egypt they are mostly from non-Egyptian women who married (or intend to marry) an Egyptian man, and army service has become an obstacle.
So, once you here the word "habibti" (meaning "my love" in Arabic), and before you call him "Habibi", let alone go down the marriage route, read on below for more information.
The exploitation happens in many forms, but is normally centered around one of the following:
Easy and Free Sex
Many tourists come from countries where sex is more freely practiced outside of marriage. Youn g Egyptian men working in tourist areas who
are not married see this as an opportunity, and are met with acceptance from the female tourists.
A source for Money
Many Egyptian men who practice this scam view the "wealthy" tourist as a source of income. They keep asking their "girl friend", "fiance" or "wife" for money for various excuses, just like a professional scammer would play a confidence game on a victim.
An Opporunity for Immigration
Some of those men want to get out of Egypt, and see their marriage as a way to gain residence and citizenship in a Western country. The economy in Egypt has been stagnant for decades, and poverty, lack of opportunity and the high cost of marriage lures some youth to trying these tricks.
Why it works?
There are several factors that work in favor of the Egyptian scammers here.
One factor that helps is that most Egyptian men look desirable to Western women, being of darker complexion than their compatriots. The fact that the foreigners are white blonds work in making the women attractive and desirable for Egyptian men.
Another factor is that the woman is coming to the tourist place to have a good time. It may be a break from stressful work or study, or perhaps a past relationship. This helps blind her to what is happening.
Yet another factor is the cultural differences which also create temporary blindness.
Moreover, those workers being away from their village or city of origin, where they would be observed by their extended family and friends tend to make it easier for them to engage in sexual relationships and scams without being scrutinized by acquaintenaces, and no stigma is attached to these behaviors.
Finally, the scammers have perfected their techniques over the years, and are very skillful at what they do.
Blacklists
Blacklists have emerged on the internet, to warn potential female tourists from known exploiters. These have all the faults of user contributed content on the internet in that they can be innacurate, biased, or even rigged by rivals or pranksters. However, in the absence of any other information, they can be useful, provided they are taken with a good deal of skepticism and research and common sense applied.
- An overview article on what a "black list" is, at Arabia.pl.
- Dezy House: Blacklist for Hurghada, in English.
- Dezy House: Blacklist for Sharm El Sheikh, in English.
- Wanted List of Egypt.
- Egyptian Blacklist on Topix.
- KunstKamera blacklist.
Happens everywhere, not only Egypt
Before someone gets the impression that Egypt is a cesspool, and Egyptians are crooks, let me say it is neither.
The problem above is not limited to Egypt by any means. Any country where tourists come in to spend money has its share of exploiters. The above black lists have a Turkish one, and a Tunisian one, and there are lots of stories about French, Italian and Spanish men exploiting women tourists as well.
Of course, there is also the Russian bride fraud targeting well to do men in the West.
So, the problem is universal, although this article focuses on female tourists to Egypt.
Final Thoughts
There are many non-Egyptian women married to Egyptian men happily, so over-generalizing from the cases mentioned, or from workers at tourist resort is wrong. Chances are you will be happy with an Egyptian as a husband if you met him in a more natural settings, e.g. while studying or working, and getting to meet his family as well.
The "artificial" environment in resorts, being on holiday, and surrounded by some scammers lend itself to the disasters described.
So, beware ...
Further Reading
- Marwa Rakha: Relationship Warning: Do not get involved with Egyptian Men (also here).
- Global Voices: "Beware of Egyptian Men" says Canadian Embassy, also by Marwa Rakha.
- Trailing Grouse: Egyptian men marrying women for money.
- Yahoo Answers: Egyptian Men marrying foreign women to get out from Egypt.
- Sex, Sun, Stupidity and Gigolos.
- Amy Robson: n English girl who keeps falling in false love with Egyptian men (she finally returned to Britain).
- Someone searching on KunstKamera: for Honest Egyptian Boys?
- List if sites on Romance Fraud in German, and other languages.
- A movie documentary in the making on holiday romance, specially Hurghada.
- Female Sex Tourism on Wikipedia, has lots of links to extensive articles. While Turkey is listed as a major destination, Egypt, Tunisia, and Morocco are listed as "minor destinations".
- An article from a Canadian perspective: Sex tourism in full boom. Jamaica, Barbados, Dominican Republic and the Caribbean are the major destination for Canadian women.
Comments
Isis (not verified)
Re Farid El Azazy
Wed, 2009/12/30 - 07:1199.99% of Egyptian men in Sharm are charming. No argument that these men are young and handsome. They will tell you that they are unmarried and poor and my crystal ball says that they are about to have a huge financial crisis in their lives and they hope you can help them out with this. Again - be careful!
Lightworker (not verified)
Egyptian men
Wed, 2009/12/30 - 07:41Hi just came across these blogs and thought I would add sure there is big scams going on in Egypt but also other countrys and this is a big lesson for all the women visiting Egypt trust yourself first. I do believe these men are assisting us in some way to become stronger and wiser as women and when you think about it we are loving unconditionally which is a beautiful gift at the end of the day it is our choice to give money or not we all have free will we just have to learn to trust ourselves and regonize when we are in the illusion and yes the men are clever there and and can be mis-trusting but who are we trusting at the end of day them more than ourselves my message is always trust yourself first and you have a choice wheather or not to give them money.Just don't fall into the illusion and let your mind be clouded when your compleatly in the love with these men.I myself have lived in Egypt and been going to Egypt for 11 years I love Egypt very much and the people there and I can say i'm fully in my power as a woman when I journey there you just we have to use our minds as well as our heart to embace Egypt.
Isis (not verified)
Trusting yourself with Egyptian men
Thu, 2009/12/31 - 08:14I don't think that it is a matter of trusting yourself when in a situation with an Egyptian man but more being aware of the red flags and how to recognise them. Women in many of these relationships can be very gullible and naive regarding Egyptian culture and religion. This is what gets them into trouble. They trust themselves and the men far too much without realising that so much happens behind the scenes - ie Egyptian wives and children exist in their men's lives more often than not. I have known Western wives in Luxor that have had no inkling of the "other" family and they are supporting them by giving money to their "husband".
Women visiting Egypt need to be aware that Egyptian men can have up to four wives if they can support them and with consent of the previous wives. Women visiting Egypt and falling for the charms of Egyptian men need to be aware that most young Egyptian men are married by the time the are in their late twenties. Sometimes the Egyptian wives are so well hidden that the foreign wives don't discover the other woman and family for many years and after generously spending much money on houses, cars and businesses to ensure that their man lived a comfortable life.
These women did trust themselves in these situations and their zero bank balances can confirm this.
Khalid
Not culture or religion: it is the setting
Thu, 2009/12/31 - 09:44The problem is not "Egyptian culture and religion" as you put it.
The problem is the whole tourist settings which is a manufactured environment focusing on tourist dollars. While most people working there are honest and hard working, there is a more than normal percentage of con-men among them who live off gullible Western women who seek cheap thrill then fall for the sweet talk. These men know the buttons to press: some promise love then ask for money because of crisis. Others do the whole marriage thing and get the woman to buy land or buildings in their name. Others seek visas. Many have other families.
They are away from their villages and close relatives and hence do not have the peer oversight that would normally be there. They have no shame and because the whole environment is manufactured and remote, their elders and relatives do not know what these men are doing.
The rest of Egypt is not like this at all. If a foreign woman knows a man in a normal setting, she would be able to know where they work, visit the extended family (father, mother, aunts, uncles, cousins, ...etc) and form an opinion. It would be hard to "hide another family" under these circumstances.
So, don't conflate "religion and culture" with the artificial settings of touristy places, specially the remote ones (Sharm El Sheikh, Hurgada, Aswan, Luxor).
Isis (not verified)
Culture and Religion
Fri, 2010/01/01 - 07:45I feel that you have misunderstood my message. Many of the foreign women who come to Egypt and get caught up in a relationship with an Egyptian man expect the relationship to progress as it would in their Western country an it does not. I speak from experience of many years as I am married to an Egyptian man.
Egyptian men in most instances are indoctrinated from a very young age to be obeyed by women. This attitude is prevalent in adulthood. It takes an educated and worldly Egyptian man to appreciate that a woman is his equal and not just a chattel and a means.
Some young Egyptian men see Western women as an opportunity - an opportunity for a better life, money and a visa and these men do not need to be in the tourist areas at all nor away from their families for it to become a scam. You really need to see this issue from the perspective of a Western woman in Egypt. Trusting yourself as a female visitor in Egypt is not enough. You need to be smart and informed. These men start young ie being approached by two 12 year olds in the Mohammad Ali Mosque and told that they loved me and wanted to marry me; being approached by two "bankers" barely out of their teens in the museum in Alex and being told that I was the most beautiful woman that they had ever seen and they would like to get to know me better. These places certainly aren't Sharm, Luxor or Hurghada. It happens all over Egypt. I personally know of instances where families of the Egyptian man have been hidden for the benefit of continuing a relationship with an English woman. The Egyptian wife was happy for the relationship to continue because it meant that there was always food on the table and the children were clothed. I also know of an instance where the family of an Egyptian man was fully aware that he married by Orfi an Australian woman purely to obtain money so that he would be able to marry his chosen Egyptian bride.
I have nothing but respect and admiration for the culture and religion of Egypt. To further my undersranding of Egypt I am also studying Arabic and Women in Islam. It is my perception that generally Western women who fall for Egyptian men do not understand the family dynamics of the Egyptian culture and they certainly do not understand the religion. These two elements have a great impact on the relationships in many aspects.
Khalid
Comments
Fri, 2010/01/01 - 11:49Thank you for the clarifications. Here are my comments/views.
1. Yes, the cultures are different. This is only natural. Some people prepare themselves that they are different, others just assume what they know from back home. No contention here.
2. For the "obedience demanded from women" and "woman are chattel" part, it is far more complex than that. This is not simply a male dominated society. Women have and do wield considerable influence, often more than men, but it is not overt. It is often subtle yet effective. Men are mostly dependent on women for many things, and in effect pass from care of one (mother) to the other (wife).
3. For the examples of Mohamed Ali Mosque and Greco-Roman Museum in Alexandria: these are still tourist haunts. Where there is a (perceived or real) prey there will be predators. This is no different from professional beggars in India demanding sympathy from tourists, or persistent and nagging peddlers elsewhere. Egypt is 80 million people. We never see this among Egyptians themselves, simply because it does not work and will quickly be quashed by the people themselves. So it only happens to tourists. I noted elsewhere in this thread that this happens in Spain, Italy, Tunisia, the Caribbean and Turkey, just to name a few other "European women" destinations.
4. Unlike other parts of the Arab word, Egyptian women are trained to be very jealous of the mere prospect of a rival wife sharing their husband, let alone actually having that rival. Even if it is allowed by both religious and civil law, it is not a common thing to see among Egyptians. The man's life is converted to a living hell by the rivalry of the two wives, each trying to best the other. So, the cases where you know that there is another family are unusual. It could be that the first wife is coerced, or helpless or otherwise (social or personality ills). I can assure you this is not normal in Egypt.
5. The so called Orfi marriage is sadly practiced among university age Egyptians in recent years. In my view it is not a real marriage unless it is "announced" and known to both family sides. If it is secretive and just a paper hidden, then it is nor real marriage and just a paper to facilitate (still unlawful) sex under a false guise of legitimacy, or to placate one side of the relationship (normally the woman) fooling them into thinking it is all lawful.
Thank you again.
gullible (not verified)
another old english woman falls for it!
Thu, 2009/12/31 - 15:37Thank you so much for this site whoever thought of it! You may have changed + saved my life! I have read every post + they have been so helpful + illuminating.
I have been on my own for 3 years, my partner died in 2006. In April this year, myself + my daughter had a wonderful holiday in Egypt. I felt so comfortable in the hotel I felt able to return again for 2 weeks in September on my own. I was not looking for love / romance at all - just a nice relaxing, warm, holiday. Again, it was fine + I had only friendliness, nothing untoward.
Then in November my Mother died. I did not want my Father to be in England over Christmas so I thought the same hotel would be fine. I knew the staff + thought we would be well looked after. And we were. But .......
Oh dear, I am an educated British woman + have let myself fall prey to everything that is warned against on this site. I began a relationship with a member of staff that I had talked to frequently on previous vacations. We had emailed each other but I thought we were just friends. When I returned he had different ideas. I have believed his protestations of love. I have given him money. Not much but money all the same.
He sat + chatted with my Father for an hour + seemed totally convincing about his wish to be with me. He has phoned my daughter to seek her approval. Why would he go to so much effort just for sex or small money?
He is a graduate + has a good job. He tells me that he doesn't need to move to England. His emails + texts are SO loving. I am now very cross with myself for being so naive + stupid. But a little bit of me still wonders if he really wants to be with me? He keeps telling me that he does.
He will probably not be able to have children with me + that seems to be a significant block to the success of a relationship with an Egyptian man. He told me it doesn't matter. Have already read posts about what that REALLY means!
Thank you for reading. Any comments would be appreciated but don't tell me I'm stupid, I already know that!
Pat (not verified)
You are not stupid.
Fri, 2010/01/01 - 17:15You are not stupid, just lonely after losing your partner.The simple way to find out if this man is real is don't give money at all, unless he is a hotel worker, then a nice tip at the end of your stay is ok.
If he starts to ask for money, say you don't have any left after your holiday.
I hope he is a genuine friend for you, it will help to heal the pain of losing someone you love. From Pat.
gullible (not verified)
Thank you Pat, and also
Sun, 2010/01/03 - 17:21Thank you Pat, and also Khalid, who, having re-read the whole site, I now realise is the founder!
My 'friend' keeps emailing and texting me but I am so reluctant to carry anything on having read the warnings on this site. Why would anyone talk at length to a grieving man (my father) and promise that he wants to be with me and wants to look after me for ever? And why would he put up with the nastiness of my teenage daughter? (She only cares / worries for me.)
He has a very good job, is multi lingual with a degree. He says he wants to be with me for me and doesn't need to leave Egypt to have a good life.
Khalid
Talk is cheap
Sun, 2010/01/03 - 18:44Your questions:
The answer is simple: future gain, in the form of money from you after his scam works. For these types, it is the cost of doing business.
Remember that he has an advantage: he is not in your own country. Back in England if someone swindles you out of money after promising love, you can go to the police and he will be questioned, ...etc. If that does not work, then at least the local community will know that such and such man is bad and no one wants to live with the with their name tarnished in his community.
These are long distance scammers, in two senses of the word: a) that you are from another culture, community, society, and jurisdiction, and b) they are away from their families, elders, friends, and peers, working in tourist areas with fear of being shamed.
He never has to face you and others again after the scam is over.
That makes them bolder and bolder ...
Degrees mean little in Egypt. There are many graduates from university who can't find work in their specialization due to the economy, and go and work as labor. Being multilingual is nice too. Some Egyptians are well educated. That is only part of the picture.
Talk is cheap. Do not fall for it.
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